Con: Joe Kroegten

Most of us agree that a reputation is worth more than $7.09, but I met a guy in New York that didn’t think so. In 2012, I put my mooring in Mt Sinai harbor up for sale on Craigslist. I ended up striking a deal with Joe Knoetgen of Rocky Point, NY. Cutting him some slack, I gave him until the end of the season to pay, which didn’t happen. When I reminded him 6 months later he still owed me money, I was suddenly a “miserable asshole” (I am, but he doesn’t know me well enough to make that call). In the end, he shorted me $7.09, and I offered to let it all drop if he paid it, but he didn’t think it worth the effort. Here’s the email traffic…

3/4/12

Very interested in your mooring set up. What size boat did you have on it and what was the weight?

Thanks.

3/4/12

Hey Joe,

I’ve got a Westsail 32 which is a full keeled sailboat weighing in at a piggish 20,000 pounds. I bought it in 2010 from a guy in City Island and dragged it to Mount Sinai. When I bought it, I’d expected to remain on Long Island for the next few years but my boss (Uncle Sam) decided I’d have more fun in the DC area, and here I am. No photos and naturally I can’t lay my hands on the receipt for the work at this moment (scanned, but I’ve forgotten what I named the file!), but Ralph’s has a copy, I’m sure. The town of Brookhaven requires an inspection prior to dropping and Ralph’s replaced everything above the mooring itself before they splashed it.

Pat

3/4/12

Thanks for the prompt reply. I have had a boat in the marina for the past 5 years but am considering bringing my larger boat around from Oceanside to Mt.Sinai. She weighs 22,000 so I just need to make sure it will work. Just curious, why are you asking $850. Seems like a lot of money.

3/4/12

like everything, price is negotiable. i was trying to recover buying it ($500), the cost of the work Ralph’s did and the fall pull. It’s not doing me any good sitting there, so I’m open to offers.

3/4/12

Lol, ok will do. I just need to see how much I can afford on the friggin mooring set up. All other costs already accounted for. Then I can make you an offer. I really want to get this set asap so I will be in touch soon. I am bad at haggling stupid prices though so I hope I don’t offend you in any way.

3/4/12

How about $500, we split last year’s haul bill 50/50. Send me half now, the rest before the end of the season?

3/5/12

So youre talking half of $500 now and half at the end of season at haul out? So thats $250 now and $250 sometime October? Plus half of the 2011 haul out bill which lets say for argument sakes is $200. My half is $100 which would be $50 now plus $50 around Oct? Total purchase $600, $300 now and $300 in Oct??

3/5/12

(Ralph’s bill) looks like $238.

3/5/12

So $619 it is. I can mail you a check for $319 now then $300 at the end of the season. You said everything is up to date and ready for drop right? I have to go to Ralphs tomorrow to pay for my boat storage so I can check it all out.

3/7/12

Our friends at Ralph’s called me this morning about my bill and I told them you’d be by. You’re apparently known to them. This a problem?

3/7/12

Huh?? No we have a good relationship with them for many years. I have to go down and pay my boat storage bill as I said in last email. Why do you ask that?

3/7/12

That might have been it. When I told ’em you’d be by they mentioned you owed them some bucks.

3/7/12

Lol, ok. I hate when people get in other peoples shit. You know how much money I have given them over the years? Its nauseating!!!!

12/22/12

time to settle up, i think.

1/14/13

two ways to do this, joe – easy way or the really expensive one. door number two involves the court system and not only will you end up paying what you owe me, i’ll throw in court costs, my travel up and back, missed work hours, and whatever else i can think of. your call and you’ve got little time to decide.

1/15/13

Hey man. I dont use this email much since my lacrosse program is seasonal and doesn’t re start until April so I havent seen these emails. I did forget about you though. LOL. Money is very tight right now from overspending on my kids for Christmas, but I will have the dough in late February so I will mail you a check at that point. No need to threaten after one email. ,)  My phone number is [deleted for blog] if you really need to get in touch with me for some reason. Like I said, I will have a check in the mail to you next month to satisfy the balance. I will email you when the check is cut.

3/7/13

well, february has come and gone and still no money. i don’t need any more reasons why, just your address for the forms i got from the county – still on huntington there in rocky point? i guess they get the sheriff or some other county employee to serve the papers.

3/7/13

Got our tax return back last week but havent had a chance to get in touch with you. Did you do your taxes? Federal and state are way delayed bc of the economy. What is your address? I will mail the check tomorrow. I want this done and over and behind me. I don’t appreciate threats when I have done nothing to warrant them.

3/7/13

Also you never did email me a letter with an agreement last year. Where are you with how much I owe you to be done with this?

3/7/13

Deal’s outlined in our emails, and your thinking I’m somehow threatening you is laughable. You rip me off for hundreds of dollars, repeatedly promise you’ll honor your word, repeatedly don’t, and you’re offended because I take the only avenue you leave me with? Priceless! You agreed to pay me what you owed me at the end of the sailing season (my offer to make paying easier on you), put off suing you because you’d “overspent” on your kids at Christmas (meaning I couldn’t on mine because- oh, right, you were spending the money you owed me), then gave you even more time til the end of February. Basically, you’re offended because I trusted you, what, two… three times and finally ran out of patience with your lying?

Because your word means nothing, I’ll go ahead and fill out the paperwork using the Huntington Road address. It’s only $15 to file the lawsuit, which I consider money well spent when someone steals from me. You get the money to me by 5:00pm Saturday, I’ll call the court and let them know to keep an eye out for the paperwork and that I’m dropping the suit. Again, since your word is worthless, so’s a personal check – no reason to think you’re not just buying more time to string this out longer. Bank check or Paypal is all I’m accepting. You don’t like it, don’t pay and I’ll print out all our emails and let a judge decide. Then I’ll post the judgement (which will be a public record) and all of our emails on my website with your info all over it so anyone thinking of doing business with you and doing their due diligence by googling you will be sure to see it.

3/8/13

I refuse to go back and forth with you. I left you my phone number months ago stating that I never use this email and you never called me. I just called you and left you a voice mail so we can talk and confirm what is owed. It was agreed upon to pay half your storage bill plus $500 last March. Then it was changed and I went in and paid your full bill which was $276. You never sent me a bill of sale with the agreed amount and I just want to get it straight, pay you and be done. Please call me this morning so we can get this done!

 …I WILL SEE IF I CAN TRANSFER MONEY FROM MY BANK ACCOUNT TO PAYPAL TODAY AND SEND YOU THE AMOUNT OWED. IF I CAN NOT TRANSFER FROM BANK TO PAYPAL, I WILL GO TO THE BANK AND MAIL OUT A BANK CHECK MADE OUT TO THE PERSON STATED ABOVE TO THE ABOVE STATED ADDRESS.

 3/8/13

I have yet to hear back from you. I just called you and left another message. I can make a PayPal payment to you today. I need you to call me with the amount due and your PayPal address of who to send the payment to.

 3/8/13

Really man. You give me a two day deadline and turn around and don’t give me the answers I need to pay you. The money is in PayPal waiting on you.

3/9/13

Really man, I had knee surgery yesterday. I’ll check PayPal later.

3/9/13

Dude you pur me against a wall with two days to do it. I just want this over as I do not like confrintation. I will look for an email later with your PayPal information and amount owed.

3/9/13

Still with the “poor you”? Really?  You put yourself in this position by not paying me when you said you would. Somehow I’m the bad guy because I had to force you to honor your word? Figured there’d be a thanks in there somewhere for letting you blow me off as long as I did. And you’re whining about only having two days to pay up? How long did it take doing it by PayPal? Couple of minutes? Keep in mind I could have made this a criminal complaint, then you’d really have something to cry about with cops to deal with and lawyers to pay, so consider yourself fortunate. We’re not friends and I’d have spent whatever it took to burn you for your attitude, let alone screwing me as long as you did. You want to continue to cry, find someone that agrees with your point of view on how important your word is. Like I said, I’ll check later. If its there, we’re done.

3/9/13

What is your PayPal address to send the payment and how much?  Enough already. Answer those two questions and were done.

3/9/13

wow, took me about 15 seconds to find out how much you owe me from our email traffic, which is $234. turns out you could have also used my phone number for paypal, which you obviously have, but that would have made it too easy, i guess. use this email address. keep screwing me and i’ll just turn it over to the cops to handle.

3/9/13

Was it that hard for you? You really are a miserable asshole! Payment sent. Lose my email and phone number and never contact me again.

3/9/13

returned to joe kroegen, one reputation worth $234. your kids must be so proud.

3/9/13

Miserable asshole here. Seems you paid me through a business account that charged me $7.09. Clever. Happy to absorb the loss, but in exchange I’ll be creating a special “Coach Knoetgen, Internet Scammer” web page. Sell it to you for, say, $7.09? (Just so there’s no confusion, payment due now.)

3/9/13

just so there’s no more “confusion” on your part, let’s make it $10 just in case PayPal screws you (gotta be their fault, right? Certainly can’t be yours). Possible be I overvalued your reputation, so let’s see what price you put on it, “coach”.

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